The Origins of Everything

[[RO]Claudiu]

Right so, its boring around here and i thought to decorate the forum with yet another fascinating topic .

Some of you are wondering if everything does have an origin and if so, what could it be?

After you finish reading this post you will be capable enough to answer your own question.That's right, i am not here to tell you the answer. The purpose of this topic is to stimulate brain activity and even so due to the process of information becoming evident and free with each passing second, everything you read here will become outdated and maybe even proven wrong in the future.

I will start by providing you with this video of one of the brightest human beings to ever walk the Earth, Carl Sagan.




Question: What is the most frequently seen aspect in the macro universe as well as the micro universe?
Answer: The circle, and the 3D version which is The Sphere.

Extreme examples:
The smallest particle of matter perceptible by human awareness , the atom is spherical, stars and planets are also spherical.

In depth examples:
Your everyday life, how much of it is made of cycles? just keep in mind that if you do the same thing twice it's already a complete cycle.

• You go to sleep and you wake up, each day, repeatedly.
• You breath in and breath out, all the time, repeatedly.
• You eat food, you take a shit, repeatedly.
• You open your eyes, you close your eyes, repeatedly.
• The atoms which compose your body "roamed" freely in the atmosphere and below the surface of the earth before your parents consumed them and shaped them into what you are today and they will return into the atmosphere and earth after you die.
• Matter on Earth undergoes cycles and recycles, nothing is excluded.
• The Moon moves in a circle around the Earth.
• The Earth goes in a circle around the Sun.
• The electron moves in a circle around the nucleus of an atom.
• You take (this) information with your eyes and process it with your brain, repeatedly.
• Time moves in a circle.

Examples like this could go on but i think you get the idea by now.

And so........... the qualities of a circle can be applied to everything around you.

Does a circle have a beginning or an end ? the way you see it yes, but at the core everything is made of circles, even a square, even a straight line. They are made of smaller circles, so small that you can't see them but you see the shapes they take.


[mp3]http://www15.speedyshare.com/files/30999434/download/VarimathrasPissed8.wav.MP3[/mp3]
Discuss!!

[Mladenus]

So basically, you're telling us: "If you read this topic and you're smart enough, you'll get the answer for all your questions." Or am I wrong?

Personally, I'll try to figure it out on my own, without cheating.

[_AdmiraL_]

Topic nice, a very good video ... I fully agree with this theory, though still can not find your way all the answers


BTW.: Here in Brazil the only circle that matters is the Wheel of Samba!

[MiZiGe]

I am still amazed about how simple things are bended and twisted to give a basis for idyjetic argumentation...

the atom is a sphere? Well yeah, Mr. Borh introduced this in 1913...we moved on since then.

[[RO]Claudiu]

So basically, you're telling us: "If you read this topic and you're smart enough, you'll get the answer for all your questions." Or am I wrong?

Yes, you're completely wrong. That's not at all what i said, read again.

Topic nice, a very good video ... I fully agree with this theory, though still can not find your way all the answers

The answers to some questions is that there is no answer:

Question: "for how long will humans walk the planet Earth?"

Answer: Nobody knows. (because when they will find out they will die so they won't get to tell and they won't have anyone to tell to.) You can only know the answer the moment it happens and then it won't matter.


But now i'm wondering,what answers do you seek? start asking questions and i'll contribute to finding an answer with relevant information.

I am still amazed about how simple things are bended and twisted to give a basis for idyjetic argumentation...

the atom is a sphere? Well yeah, Mr. Borh introduced this in 1913...we moved on since then.

explain "moved on" cause unless I'm mistaking the atom is still a sphere and the electron's trajectory is still circular in orbit around the nucleus.


And yeah the concept of "moving on" is ambiguous because in a circular trajectory forward leads to backward. It may not seem that way to you but widen your perspective and you see that everything moves in a circular pattern including time itself.

[demon-storm]

I have to disagree with the statement that time moves in a circular pattern. It is not the time who moves that way, it is our concepts which makes the time looks like it moves in a circular pattern. Example: Every day for a student is almost the same from a wide point of view, also the clock time may be the same in 24 hours, but that's only from our clock's point of view. If the earth wouldn't go around the sun, that means the time would have been a straight line? We will never see again the yesterday with every detail in it.

[Mladenus]

Some of you are wondering if everything does have an origin and if so, what could it be?
After you finish reading this post you will be capable enough to answer your own question.

You know, "everything" is quite large conceit. And "everything" can't be based on only 1 basis. It's ridiculous.

As for the topic about time, time is just limit in our brain, at least I think so.

[_AdmiraL_]

Actually, I think the answers only matter at the time, then does not matter anymore. Even though I did all the questions, doubts remain, such as: "There is still a question?" Now I know everything? "

But I like to think of time as a cycle, therefore,
With 4 years what we want, is to stop bedwetting
With 10 years: is to have friends
With 20 years: sex
With 40 years: (the apex) have sex and money
With 60 years: sex
With 70 years: have friends
With 80 years: is to stop bedwetting


Sorry my English, but I'm here for phone and I do not have Google translate to help me

[MiZiGe]

ok,
take hydrogen. How do you make a sphere out of a positive electricaly charged group of particles interacting with a a neutral group of sub-atom particles, surrounded by one probability waveform of negatively charged quantum particles, that has a limit->0 mass

sphere is a model, used in order to simplify relations in thinking and communication per se. That does not make it a basis for accurate argumentation. Or actually, it does, but only in the limits of such a model. Not universal.

[[RO]Claudiu]

I have to disagree with the statement that time moves in a circular pattern. It is not the time who moves that way, it is our concepts.

and time is a concept, it may not even exist or it may be something else than what we think it is.

As for the topic about time, time is just limit in our brain, at least I think so.

For me time is an interpretation of how many loops happen that are obvious, and once you loose track of time you start over a new cycle.

ok,

take hydrogen. How do you make a sphere out of [b]a positive electricaly charged group of particles interacting with a a neutral group of sub-atom particles, surrounded by one probability waveform of negatively charged quantum particles, that has a limit->0 mass

sphere is a model, used in order to simplify relations in thinking and communication per se. That does not make it a basis for accurate argumentation. Or actually, it does, but only in the limits of such a model. Not universal.

Ok first of all, things are too complicated for you if you insert adjectives in an argument. Bottom line, they are still the same with or without various elements of human terminology attached to them. I avoid to "guess" what they are and what they are not because most adjectives attributed to a element that were thought to be relevant in the past were proven to be incorrect in the future. Example: as "the earth was flat" in the past and now its round so will the "positive electricaly charged group" be proven to be something else in the future due to the fact that every generation is smarter than the previous on and IM SURE that we have not yet achieved the pinnacle of technological evolution and understanding( if such a thing were to exist at all )

And another thing, if you allow your words to be subject to interpretation, the reader can only guess what you mean by those words and therefore starts a conflict if he doesn't guess correctly.

@ "sphere is a model, used in order to simplify"and even so its not simple enough, why say that its a model and not just acknowledge the fact that it simply IS ( exists ) and you get something that doesn't start a confusion " sphere exists"



SO here's my interpretation of what i think you want to transmit with that colorful text full of elements of confusion and tunnel vision.

- You do not acknowledge the fact that the proton, electron and neutron are closer to being spherical than to being any other mathematical shape.
- You also do not acknowledge the fact that all movement in the world aROUND us is based on the electron's orbit around the nucleons of a isotope or otherwise an atom.
-You doubt the fact that the electrons,neutrons and protons which compose your body have always been in existence, will not cease to exist and did not appear out of nothing.


IF my interpretation is wrong i would very much like to know what your interpretation of your own words is.

Actually, I think the answers only matter at the time, then does not matter anymore. Even though I did all the questions, doubts remain, such as: "There is still a question?" Now I know everything?

You can never know everything, the concept is ambiguous. Knowing everything implies that the human has reached the pinnacle of perception and recognizes all the elements,constants and variables that exist and that do not exist.

[MiZiGe]

No I do not agree that they are spherical, because they are not. An electron is a dual existence of matter and wave; how can that be spherical??

It is not hard to understand what I am saying...I hope.
particles = too complex -> theoretical model = sphere -> effective descriptions
however
model based descriptions != reality


And pardon me, but what is this

Ok first of all, things are too complicated for you if you insert adjectives in an argument

the word "complicated" is an adjective too.
And lastly, the idea that people thought through out the history that the earth is flat is an urban myth.

[Cen]

• You go to sleep and you wake up, each day, repeatedly. So what? No circle here, just repetitive events, every single one of them can be understood as seperate and standalone..
• You breath in and breath out, all the time, repeatedly. same
• You eat food, you take a shit, repeatedly. same
• You open your eyes, you close your eyes, repeatedly. same
• The atoms which compose your body "roamed" freely in the atmosphere and below the surface of the earth before your parents consumed them and shaped them into what you are today and they will return into the atmosphere and earth after you die. same...
• Matter on Earth undergoes cycles and recycles, nothing is excluded. same
• The Moon moves in a circle around the Earth. It is ecliptic.. same as all orbits in the universe. SOme planets or meteors are not even near to have a circle for orbit..
• The Earth goes in a circle around the Sun.
• The electron moves in a circle around the nucleus of an atom. You clearly do not have enough knowledge to state that.
• You take (this) information with your eyes and process it with your brain, repeatedly. And yet, even if some events happen in a similar way all the time it has nothing to do with spehere neither circle. Each such processing is a one of a time event and can be understood as such.
• Time moves in a circle. No.. time goes forward.

Imho just another attempt of philosophy to generalise the universe.

Philosophy will never give you the answer, just some true or false assumptions which make you think about them but do not help you whatsoever. It usually ends up misleading you in completely wrong direction.

[[RO]Claudiu]

And lastly, the idea that people thought through out the history that the earth is flat is an urban myth.

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth[/URL]

ok so if you deny that the electron is spherical then tell me what shape it has ( the "matter" part of the electron ), and besides this tell me if there's anything that you do agree upon. I'm more interested in what you agree with me cause i'm not trying to convince you of anything.

and @ Ok first of all, things are too complicated for you if you insert adjectives in an argument

i meant no offense by that, and yes i use adjectives too, i'm not better than anyone but i wish we had a language with which we could communicate better. Interpretation leads to conflicts of communication.

• You go to sleep and you wake up, each day, repeatedly. So what? No circle here, just repetitive events, every single one of them can be understood as seperate and standalone..

if something happens 2 times its a cycle.

• The Moon moves in a circle around the Earth. It is ecliptic.. same as all orbits in the universe. SOme planets or meteors are not even near to have a circle for orbit..

and if they would have that orbit would be circular.

• The electron moves in a circle around the nucleus of an atom. You clearly do not have enough knowledge to state that.

"enough knowledge" will never be achieved by anyone. I'm stating that on the basis of my very limited knowledge.

You take (this) information with your eyes and process it with your brain, repeatedly. And yet, even if some events happen in a similar way all the time it has nothing to do with spehere neither circle. Each such processing is a one of a time event and can be understood as such.

Ever had a "deja vu" ?

• Time moves in a circle. No.. time goes forward.

some questions for you:

do you have anything to back this up?

do you even realize that your clock has only 12 hours and once it reaches them it starts over? and why is that?

Philosophy usually ends up misleading you in completely wrong direction.

how and why? i'm just curious. And who is to say which is the wrong direction and which is the right direction. Think of a world without science ( which happens within the framework of a philosophy ) and describe it for me.

And here's a simple solution for your dilemma, if a philosophy leads you in the "completely" wrong direction you stop going that way but usually if something does not compute you stop there and don't continue in the wrong direction

[ProfileScorp]

i think this philosophy should stay away from science

[Cen]

Claudiu... CLOCK was invented by HUMAN for better time representation. There are more representations of time, clock is just ONE of them. Just to throw a simple example out, one type of time in your computer is POSIX time which counts time since 0:00 (UTC) of January 1, 1970. This time GOES FORWARD only and it will always go forward. Same as years.


Time itself in physics also goes forward only.. that's the basic of theory of relativity which consequentially says that we can't travel back in time. AFAIK