Answer to a new league

[CroNichaR]

You can lock this thread without any reply it's ok and if you see this as a spam delete it.

I just felt that i had to say a few things about that New league thread.

First of all i saw a lot of mentioning about channel balkan which was not supposed to be a league.
Story goes like this: LONG TIME AGO there was channel named croatia for all ppl that were from ex yu countries which was not an official public channel on server and it still had 30+ ppl in channel all the time (while there was a lot of priv games running). As you all now back then racism was really strongly represented between croatian and serbian ppl so there was a lot of flaming, insulting, treating etc. so a guy named RazZzor007 (first croatian channel operator that made that channel public and ex server staff) became a channel operator to solve those problems and he was doing fine at the time.
Problem came when he wanted to evolve that community so he took 2 new "moderators" which happened to be a racists... so ppl from serbia created a new channel, their own.
One year later he and a lot of pro cro ppl started to make cro-dota community and they went to play on Garena (90% players went to Garena from cro channel). So channel started to fall apart together with serbian channel coz they went on garena too.
To make things worse croatian community here didn't die, but there was a really little number of ppl here playing and they had no representative (then i came)... Few months ago ss-extasy came to channel cro and asked me about my would i support combining channel serbia and croatia into one (since we all speak same language and almost we all knew each other) so after a few talks with him and vladimir we created balkan channel that was in first supposed to be for croatians and serbians.
But when we realized that channels like Bosnia, Macedonia etc. started to die because of channel balkan we decided to put them into our staff so we did that and know it represents Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Monte Negro and Macedonia.

Your complains about our rules for not being able our tournaments because you're not from ex yu country are well.. stupid!! you see we DIDN'T make that channel to bring ppl from Turkey (don't take this as an insult please) we made it to bring our ppl together and make one community where we could play games without using english language (which we are still using but i can't complain since 90% of them are mannered and nice guys and we are free to talk on our language without seeing words like: "fu retard speak english and not your stupid chinesee).

You were also talking about how long are you on this server, well i can say to you ALL that i'm probably here longer than 95% of you. Even my forum account is older than mostly of your's and i still have a lot less forum spam (upss i meant posts) then you do. And you all seek some power or something like that.

Now about that new league i also don't see why mng is so agresive since history showed us that balkan lose players for a while as it happened three times so far but they always come back because regardless to you haters it's really good organized and mannered guys are leading it. Also mentioning noel as if i remember abusive or something like that is also not true because as much as i know he helps when he can and lately i'm a lot in channel to help (even tho i'm out of staff for a while).

Now a little about Sorrow and Zeus...
First of all i don't know does sorrow knows him at all because i really can't understand how some1 from serbia can be a friend to guy that enters a channel with words: "Srbe na vrbe" or with sign =U= in fact i was a friend with zeus too until he spammed about 50 lines of =U= in lobby while i was there which resulted as banning all his accounts.
I can't say anything about sorrow's bans/warnings etc. because i don't know him that much but i know he is unmannered, sometimes he acts like a child but that's all i can say about him. As for zeus well.. i can say he is unmannered, racist, child in head, also his threats to me after banning him like: "dude you're fu**ing idiot unless you stop banning me every time you see me i swear i'll come to your house and beat the shit out of you" after he got a looooooong laugh i got this msg: "i know i'm not stronger than you but i'll pay some1 to do it for me and you will regret your actions" also made me laugh and then conversation ended between us.

@MusicDemon You say you're not asking for power... Well i can say for sure you are. Reasons: #1 your asking for promotions for all your helping at forum... i probably helped a lot more than you did and i help to some1 once in 3 months... I'm not saying i have more knowledge then you do, i don't but at least i'm not asking anything in return for helping some1 to play a game #2 your asking of being admin to this new league.
Now tell me again are you asking for power or not??

My question to you is:

Lets say that new league actually gets created would you like some1 like them runs it??

Once again i'm sry for posting after a thread got closed but i really wanted to say this (and a lot of this concerns mostly to this "haters of balkan channel").

[Fika[F]]

[Deadly_burek]

Me gusta this Fikus

[MusicDemon]

@MusicDemon You say you're not asking for power... Well i can say for sure you are. Reasons: #1 your asking for promotions for all your helping at forum... i probably helped a lot more than you did and i help to some1 once in 3 months... I'm not saying i have more knowledge then you do, i don't but at least i'm not asking anything in return for helping some1 to play a game #2 your asking of being admin to this new league.
Now tell me again are you asking for power or not??

No, it's not. You don't know what's happening behind the scenes so please, do not speculate when you don't know the details. Other than that; With power seeking I mean: Being able to ban accounts on the server / Ban accounts on the website. I don't want those things, as I said; You must know what's happening behind the scenes to know what's going around.

My question to you is:

Lets say that new league actually gets created would you like some1 like them runs it??

I suppose you mean; Will I cooperate when the actual thread creator was project leader? Why not? I'm not interested in DotA, just a fair play.

Once again i'm sry for posting after a thread got closed but i really wanted to say this (and a lot of this concerns mostly to this "haters of balkan channel").

Awh, well. It'll take a few weeks until everyone has it's own league, you'll see >:]

[Vaikiss]

well sorrow made xdl couple months ago (i dont know exact date )

and i hvnt noticed anything bad from his side while playing there (did about 30 games~ )

also it was pretty active until he disapeared couse extasy wasn't aproving XDL to be kept alive (aka it steals ss players lmfao)

once again 0 LEAGUES WE currently have for non br/balkan/ro/cz/etc players

what can be worse than having none and having 1 ? exactly nothing can be wrong than that besides having higer skill games played and able to chat in english

[CroNichaR]

as i've said earlier i don't have nothing against it, i personally think it would be at least decent project. But when i see what ppl are trying to make it and what ppl ar talking a lot of shit for something that i was creating for months... i don't think so.
And something more demon i know a lot more than you think i know, but i'm not here to argue with you about server.

I suppose you mean; Will I cooperate when the actual thread creator was project leader? Why not? I'm not interested in DotA, just a fair play.

that was exactly my question and that was the only wrong answer you could give. Tell me why do you want to work with some1 who has already been banned for a dozens of times for racism??

My point was stop talking about balkan in every 2nd thread!!!

And if you really want to open a new league why do you need channel operator status??? And if you really want it buy it.

As far as i know you can buy both bots and channel operator for private channel, so if you really want to prove this idea worthy pay for it for a 2-3 months if admins don't aprove your idea. After a few months they would be forced to cooperate with you.


P.s. as far as i'm concerned, i've told what i wanted you can lock this thread and who ever feels need about further discussion on this topic he can always find me on server.

Regards, BLKN.CroNichaR.

[Slayzer]

Jessus Christ can we clear once and for all that thing about new league being made only for the reason to destroy Balkan. That is complete nonsense. Some of you mentioned that appearance of Balkan destroyed EDL(so this would be some kind of revenge?!) that is also not true, EDL had problems with lack of players 1-2 months before Balkan community was made.
The thing I don't understand is why are you guys trying to make Balkan act as private league when it shouldn't even be a league its supposed to be community for ex-Yu countries. Be honest how many players would New private league take from Balkan? (Consider skill,manners, attitude) 50-70 players at max. And how many players does Balkan have now? (600, lets say 500 active players) that makes Balkan lose 10% in worse scenario, although I doubt they would lose so many.

About me wanting power is one more nonsense, I mean what power could I possibly have? Blue letters? That one I already have and I use it hmm like never? In fact it's not even on my present account (TemS.Slayzer). In the old days of Hostbot none of admins/moderators had some special server privilegies, even forum wasn't on ebnet web page, however league was the best organised league on ebnet so far. Me being unpolite, well please would you be so kind to find 1 post where I offended someone. Sometimes I can be annoying in games, as everyone is(no exceptions here) but I never offended someone.

Zeus being nacist? Won't comment it, since I've never seen him spamming something like that when there were Serbs around.

First of all I have no reason to hate Balkan, the reason I was banned is due to rule change I haven't noticed, the old rule was that you have to stay in game untill rmk votes have been cast. As for Mng he left before and it made me angry because of leaving the game, that is one thing admin should never do.
As you can see here [url]http://eurobattle.net/showthread.php?t=143567[/url] I haven't asked for unban like others were, just complained about admins attitude. As for rule braking it wouldn't happen if I noticed rule update.

Once again this isn't topic I run for the first time, there is a thread in mod section made by Cen long time ago about reviving EDL, just because some players were furious about some things in Balkan channel doesn't mean it's a reason for which we chosen to go public and ask for a new league. Cen can confirm that we asked him on Teamspeak about running this thread in public.

We wanted to make something more competitive that would be attractive for users beyond our server, also I've spoken with Lumminous (Dotacommentaries admin) for those who don't know [url]http://www.dotacommentaries.com/[/url], and they had some interest in moving on our server, when I asked admins to provide me with "exact stuff we can provide them" (such as exact bots hosting power, channel privilegies, teamspeak etc. none responded (or maybe only Mizige made one response can't tell for sure now since I can't check it). And that's one of the things that really pisses me off, that present staff isn't doing anything to make server more avalible for competitive players.
Even that could be okay, but at least stop preventing people that have some ideas and are willing to make an effort to make something that will be help server revive competitive dota.

Some of you asked why it has to be me? The thread about new league isn't posted by my own decision, I've spoken with many players and chieftans of dota clans and they showed interest in taking part in a project like this, as for admin they suggested me since I was in charge of EDL and DPL(was admin of Hostbot too short so I won't comment it as most of the job was done by Istealyourkills,pooksor,Cro_Zeus,Nonick and Gaaraofthesand_) when those leagues were on top of their era.
Also I proved my loyalty by leaving DPL staff once they decided to move to RGC.

Why did we chose exactly this moment for promoting idea? Summer is coming and people will have more time to play, also a new seasons of BDL and pick league are to begin so we are hoping that with good progress of the league we could benefit from getting some of our teams into those strong leagues and possibly getting some of their players to our server. People were clearly for us(check IPs I'm sure you won't find 1 that was multiaccount), admins disagree so its up to you.

[LOGiStiK]

Holy wickidy shitidy chineese wall of text.

[Slayzer]

And if you really want to open a new league why do you need channel operator status??? And if you really want it buy it.

We don't nor we ever asked for it, that is something admins and some users that don't like idea have said for I know no reason.
For those who know EDL functioned perfectly well without operators on admin positions even Kostas didn't want to take it at first but it proved useful later so he took it.

All we ask for are 1 guard and 1 bot for a channel, of course we could pay for it but there are 3 reasons we won't do it:
1) We are doing server a favour by making a league.
2) We would need our own website so we can make money from comercials or surveys to pay bots. Even this one is difficult to do on its own, not to mention that server staff is against this one.
2b) Paypal isn't avalible in Serbia which makes previous very hard to do. (due to policies of transfering money in our country won't explain that now its not needed)
3) Why would we pay for it if we can find same things on RGC/Darer without paying for it. The thing is that we like this server most and we know most of the users here so we would like to stay here.

[CroNichaR]

As i've said before i don't have anything against this league... I just said it because i saw mass spam against balkan which i couldn't allow since i CREATED it and i spent a lot of my time in building it and i still do that!!
If at least 50% of those things you've said is true that would be a great project but i also had to say that some1 like cro_zeus should never be granted with any power at all. Now as you all know he would come here raging against everyone but this time he didn't... why?? because he knows that i'm telling the truth.
And those things that RGC/Darer offered you something i don't buy ok?? If you really are partner with zeus in this you would accept it a long time ago.
Now, my suggestion to you is to came up with rules, ideas, staff member etc. i mean complete project supported by

Lumminous (Dotacommentaries admin) for those who don't know [url]http://www.dotacommentaries.com/[/url]

(something that proofs this) and you will have more than a big chance to get that.

Once again before you start arguing with me. I'm not against this, i'm for this project. But before you start demanding something you must give something first.

[MusicDemon]

as i've said earlier i don't have nothing against it, i personally think it would be at least decent project. But when i see what ppl are trying to make it and what ppl ar talking a lot of shit for something that i was creating for months... i don't think so.
And something more demon i know a lot more than you think i know, but i'm not here to argue with you about server.



that was exactly my question and that was the only wrong answer you could give. Tell me why do you want to work with some1 who has already been banned for a dozens of times for racism??

My point was stop talking about balkan in every 2nd thread!!!

And if you really want to open a new league why do you need channel operator status??? And if you really want it buy it.

As far as i know you can buy both bots and channel operator for private channel, so if you really want to prove this idea worthy pay for it for a 2-3 months if admins don't aprove your idea. After a few months they would be forced to cooperate with you.


P.s. as far as i'm concerned, i've told what i wanted you can lock this thread and who ever feels need about further discussion on this topic he can always find me on server.

Regards, BLKN.CroNichaR.

All I said is that I wanted to get clearly notified in channel W3-HELP so that users who use /chs can see that there's someone in W3-HELP who is approved as technical supporter.

Once again before you start arguing with me. I'm not against this, i'm for this project. But before you start demanding something you must give something first.

As again; I give advise and technical support, as for advise, I advise Steff and Shakar from time to time regarding bots and PvPGN

[Slayzer]

My intention is not to argue, just simple explanation as I can't really understand why ebnet board is strongly against new league project.

As for offering something before demanding one, I think I've done a great deal of job for this server so far in creating one of the most popular private league EDL, as well as maintaining Dota private league and Hostbot. I haven't seen anyone complaining of me in that time so I hope the job I've done was done in the best possible way.

To prove it (although anyone that had something to do with Dota on this server should know it) you can revive old EDL forum and see what/who/when have done. About dotacommentaries their web site is organised to provide replays, forum isn't that attractive and is more oriented to "real dota addicts". Their inhouse isn't organised as we are used to, they don't play league for stats or so, they play for relaxation which makes them much more polite (can't be compared to our own server). While playing there I've heard people complaining about hosting problems (they don't have hostbots so they have to host it manually which isn't the best solution) so I took my time and sent a massage to Lumminous, got response. Some time after that we talked on TS and he wanted to know what exactly we could provide them, here I had to take time and see it with our board since I wasn't responsible for technical stuff unfortunately none besides Mizige showed some real interest in this so the project failed. (You can see screenshots from DC web site)

[[PiG]Blackeye]

new league why not ??,and about bots u can ask pd admin (they had league 2 IDHL,with good bots)to share with u or so,and balkan isnt so great beacouse always someone of new players can fuck ur game from start.

[Slayzer]

How exactly New league would work? Can't be 100% sure since there are still things I'm not sure of but this is what I was thinking:

General league overview
A place where mid skilled players could play games on mid level (Global mid skill level). We think that there are many players on this server that could be getting to mid skill, or already are mid skilled but due to lack of skilled games they can't maintain same level of skill or progress further. As for high skilled players there are 20 of them at most on our server and most of them don't seem to be interested in helping others learn something.

Vouching system
There would be 4 ways of vouching new players:
1. Test games
Players can sign up for the test game that would be organised once or twice a week depending on how many players have signed, they will be judged by vouchers. Should players fail to get in they will be denied for 2 weeks.
2. Vouch request
Standard vouch request with players posting some general info and their dota history with some decent replays showing that they posses skill we require.
3. Player invite system
Each month, players with more than 15 games can invite 1 friend to join the league. This rule won't be available to newcomers(Players that are in league for less than a month).
4. Team vouch request
If a team makes a vouch request it will be judged by comparing it to some of the best games of the league as we consider that team that played for some time together would have much better cooperation and synergy than individuals.

Promoting league
Should we manage to create a stable community on eurobattle we will look to invite more people to it by promoting league on tournaments such as BDL,Razer,Pick league and more, also by making videos and making tournaments with brother-leagues(such as DGL) from other servers since we can't provide awards. (This one is doubtful though, since we can't be sure if we would benefit from it~to be discussed)

Overall gameplay
We will strongly insist on manners before skill. Also there is one thing that won't and shouldn't depend on league board and that is should we insist on players using teamspeak, my own opinion is that we should but for this one I think the best solution is to open a discussion thread, make people post what they think and after that run a poll to see weather we should make it mandatory or not.

Making important league decisions
Every staff member, regardless of role will have right to vote for decisions that are to be made by board, such as implementing new rules,promoting new staff members, demoting old ones and so on.

Additional stuff
We would like to make a league bit more interactive and this will mean that we will open a replay of the week/month contest, video making contest and commentary section. This proved to increase popularity of leagues so far and is very good way to advertise league beyond server. However this is one thing we shouldn't rush with as it needs good planing and some serious staff members to carry it on, I have some on my mind but wouldn't name them at this point.

League staff
Admin
TemS.Slayzer (Serbia)
Vouchers
Bart0zo (Poland)
Saintknight (Bulgaria-living in Sweden)
St3f. (Serbia)
DooWops(Netherlands)
Cro_Zeus(Croatia)-doubtful due to admin restrictions
Those are names I have in mind at the moment, although we will consider who can carry the job best and pick best 3.
Multimedia administration
Replays moderator,2 Commentators would be chosen by the vote.

The whole staff shouldn't be too large to avoid causing mess.
We wouldn't require channel op's unless it is necessary for bot/guard to be controlled. Only thing we might need, although we can make it ourselves if needed is forum space, should be organised like this:
-General league info
-Vouch requests
-Ban requests
-Multimedia
-Tournaments
-Graveyard

That was our idea(of players who play long time together on different leagues such as Hostbot,DPL,EDL,DGL,Dr.community,Guerilla method we simply want a nice organised place to play). Of course its all up to ebnet board, but I really see no strong, argumented reason for not allowing us to make one.

[MusicDemon]

.sorrow., I was trying to defend you but, now you're doing a really stupid step; Cen said: You want it? Go for it. There's been no NO, there's been a "Do it on your own"

So stop posting your blah-blah that we're all against you and invest in a server rather than spending time with telling how bad we are.