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eXtasY
16th April 2012, 09:29 PM
Hello, I heard there is new dota moderator around. :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

I would start discussion about picking in cm mode in this mode. I hope you can help me Chupa and explain how to do it properly! Share your dota knowledge with us! Respect :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

GoodanGeL
16th April 2012, 10:13 PM
It is better to have the 1st pick in CM or to have the last one ?

T-Pain
16th April 2012, 10:21 PM
diz pick is ok ?

Lich / Wd / Undying ( bot )
SF ( mid )
clock ( top )

p.s : Es banned !

Majestic.
16th April 2012, 11:59 PM
It is better to have the 1st pick in CM or to have the last one ?

Last pick is much better if u ask me since your opponent can't counter that hero.

Tayschrenn
17th April 2012, 10:31 AM
In dota2 most top teams prefer to have first pick.

Fika[F]
17th April 2012, 01:19 PM
you pick hard carry, give it to fika, and gg, opponent outpicked

Pyro
17th April 2012, 03:58 PM
Especially if that hard carry is lycan :D

Lohan
17th April 2012, 04:46 PM
Sincerely, don't have difference between in be the 1º pick or 2º pick.
Is better talk about the difference of the picks...

Vaikiss
17th April 2012, 05:11 PM
im wondering what is better to pick

lycan for fika

or enigma for fika ?

Majestic.
17th April 2012, 05:23 PM
furion

Pyro
17th April 2012, 05:44 PM
fika best sf eu

Vaikiss
17th April 2012, 05:48 PM
zimo best sf eu ?

Pyro
17th April 2012, 05:54 PM
zimo biggest tard eu

Lohan
17th April 2012, 06:04 PM
dafuq?!

I cant understand anything X_x

eXtasY
18th April 2012, 01:32 AM
Its better to have first pick since you can take DK for Fika that is impossible to counter anyhow.

Smt like this http://www.dotabot.net/bots_webpages/ss/gamestats.php?id=69

Now im waiting for dota guru Chupa for tips ! :D

T-Pain
18th April 2012, 01:43 PM
hey chupo. Can es > 3lane?

eXtasY
18th April 2012, 02:41 PM
diz pick is ok ?

Lich / Wd / Undying ( bot )
SF ( mid )
clock ( top )

p.s : Es banned !

Hmm i like your thinking that is very nice pick! Also very wise decision to ban es!

Maybe cm instead wd, there is more nuke and aura is very strong.. Dont know... What you think chupa?

Mitix
18th April 2012, 02:43 PM
u can rep und with es if u are a fan of lane control with ack-> stun..just block with es then wind do the rest...but thats just oldschool :D

NOe1
18th April 2012, 02:45 PM
how to lose game with am/brood.

http://www.dotabot.net/bots_webpages/ss/gamestats.php?id=88


chupa any advise not to lose game?

Immortal.Dani
18th April 2012, 04:45 PM
don't let blackeye am ?!

Vaikiss
18th April 2012, 06:32 PM
slayzer rexxar > instawin simple as that

T-Pain
18th April 2012, 06:43 PM
can rexxar woods?
if he can
spells:
"1/3/2/1/4 etc "
items:

[MooN]Pain
19th April 2012, 02:46 PM
diz pick is ok ?

Lich / Wd / Undying ( bot )
SF ( mid )
clock ( top )

p.s : Es banned !
How can you say this pick is good? Lich on a 3ple lane that should take both twrs before min 15? Lich is sent on a tripple/dual lane with a carry hero, because he controls the creep waves and keeps them back near your tower so even extasy on potm wont push it. Sending lich on that lane is like saying trance is psy/goa.
You can go woods with any hero if you stack'n'pull but that doesnt mean every hero is good to be sent in woods.

[^RawR^]
19th April 2012, 03:03 PM
SF is also a shit hero for mid, and a shit carry overall

GoodanGeL
19th April 2012, 03:06 PM
SF is not carry you know ... he's more an AOE DMG dealer due to his ultimate which is very powerful in early-mid stage of the game and razes also.

Vaikiss
19th April 2012, 03:13 PM
;1482795']SF is also a shit hero for mid, and a shit carry overall

sf times is gone already

Lohan
19th April 2012, 04:46 PM
Chupa away?

[MooN]Pain
19th April 2012, 04:47 PM
Shit carry or not, it's a hero that can farm very fast, deals huge damage with razez and ult, his time is gone in dota1 but i've played a shitload of games in dota2 with sf and i think his time is yet to come there and he is carry because he needs farm.

[-NoNick-]
19th April 2012, 06:57 PM
calling an agi hero with good stats gain, -5 armor 900 aoe aura, +72 dmg, amazing farming ability and good ulty a "shit hero" is ignorant

Fika[F]
19th April 2012, 10:05 PM
it's simple as this, he is pure dps w/o any disalbe or survivability

translation he deals shitload of dmg but is paper that can't stun/hex/slow

if you implement him in the right pick he can be very usefull

[^RawR^]
20th April 2012, 03:08 AM
Translation he gets fucked over by smoke ganks and about 10 heroes on mid right now and gets outcarried by heroes with 2 items less than him = shit. Having massive dmg from skills usually means the hero can't carry properly as he lacks something else (ursa, sb, sf, lanaya, sk, slard, sven, jugger etc etc)

[-NoNick-]
20th April 2012, 03:32 AM
every hero gets fucked up by smoke ganks, also i just went on gg.net, opened latest 4 replays, sf was in 2/4, won both games
http://gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54740
http://gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54738
i guess chinese ppl are trying to bring him back into metagame
shadowfiends u can see on ss/other xpam leagues are shit not because of the hero but because of player l2p issue
also heroes u mentioned are countered by ghost scpet thus they cant carr properly, you cant counter sf with ghost scep

Tayschrenn
20th April 2012, 02:08 PM
Eurobattle.net dota specialists.

Sf is very good and useful hero, it's just not 'trendy' to pick him nowadays. Obviously the way it used to be played, with solo mid getting bkb mega fast and fast farm + putting pressure on enemy lanes, is not good anymore, but there are other ways to play this hero.

I could write much more about that but nonick pretty much hits the point, so yeah.

Just one thing - SF with phase boots and drums as a core first items will be "the shit" in upcoming future.

[^RawR^]
20th April 2012, 03:35 PM
The problem is you usually have to counter powerful carries with something (AM, weaver, naix, lycan, dk, nessaj, storm, tb) or they will just walk over your team from early to late if you've got the wrong composition. SF needs no counters as he dies in 2 nukes early and he's easily outcarried late. There's many very good and useful heroes that aren't picked such as tinker, tiny, viper, necro, dazzle, bane because there are either heroes that do their role better, or just the OP ones are simply stronger.

If SF is one of those heroes it doesn't mean he's overlooked, it means he doesn't fit the metagame where by midgame a 2k hp nessaj/balanar/slardar/dk/lycan is gonna go in like a retard and rape your face without you being able to do anything. He doesn't fit the metagame where positioning is diminished because of ridiculous range on shackleshot, nessaj blink, blink dagger bat/rex/sven/panda/slardar and force staves who do fuck up fragile heroes from over 1k range easily. He's just too easy to stop atm, ridiculous farm ability and powerful nuke damage don't warrant a hero being able to survive early/mid. Kinda similar to necro/krob, and they have it easier since they build tank shit

Tayschrenn
20th April 2012, 04:14 PM
sf might not be bright idea in latest dota1, where picks are focused on picking 3-4 stupid fatties such as lycan panda ck slard dk sylla rex and so on.
But he fits very well in current dota2 metagame, being extremely overpowered during mid game.

The point is, you can't just throw him solo mid and expect him to win lane and farm 'just like that'. Mid lanes are won by smoke gangs, not heroes on mid themselves, and sf is not good in killing with help of smoke gang - he has no stun/slow etc.
But, if you lane him well he becomes really powerful mid game hero, with ability to deal tons of both magic and physical dps, and he does not really need that much farm to provide in fights.
Also he does not lose that much in late game, as a matter of fact being range hero gives him nice advantage over certain melee hard carries. It's obviously about positioning in fights, but for example navi used sf to counter am in enemy team many times against top teams, and it worked.